Simply, illegal immigration is an issue created to get Republican voters riled up enough to vote when Republicans don't have much they can successfully run on.
It's a non-issue that no one really expects to solve or has any intention of doing anything productive on.
1. When in the last 6 years has there been anything done without big business backing it? Guess who hires illegals. Look at the Walmart busts - each one nets hundreds of illegals, but there are just a handful every year.
How many Walmarts, Targets, Sam's Clubs and other employers are there that hire illegals? The number investigated and the number hiring don't add up.
Someone once likened their approach to throwing garbage at the wall and seeing what sticks with the public. I assume immigration didn't capture enough, so they came up with gays, now flag burning.
I wonder what's next if polls don't pick up. i've been playing that little game for awhile now - and it's true.
2. Twice as many illegals cross the Canadian border (per U.S. border patrol figures). They just can't be seen as easily. That does make this a race issue.
The numbers from the U.S. border patrol are published on a congressional members website. (I'd have to hunt it down again - I'm not a proffessional. Should be easy to google).
3. Arizona already has a 'guest worker' program. I discovered this gem from a current class action lawsuit found at www.findlaw.com. The workers are charging that they aren't being paid. The farmers set up another company (to avoid these issues) to bus workers back and forth across the border. All those 'illegal' immigrants working in the field - aren't illegal.
What surprised me is there is very LITTLE oversight from the State Department of these charters.
4. A little history reminder - Every single hijacker was LEGALLY in this country with VISA's ISSUED by the State Department.
They weren't illegal immigrants, they were officially APPROVED. So how come 9/11, homeland (in)security, and everything else is now wrapped up as illegal immigration?
The State Department, however, have made few productive changes. They still can't track or find a majority of visa's they issue. (A little more history - it took public outcry, 2 years after 9/11 for the State Department to restrict Saudi Visa's at all).
There's several security oriented websites that have scathing reports security measures made by consultants have NOT been implimented,
charged they wanted a specific outcome suggested, and have done little to produce more than the public impression of 'security' (or hassle, like at the airport).
It doesn't take constitution busting procedures / implants / RFID's to improve security. Other nations face higher level threats, more often and still don't resort to the invasive measures - and there's no contest, they have better security, for much less cost.
I worked at airports for over 10 years. Real improvements were opposed or scrapped. They kept the 'show'.
5. Illegals (Mexican's) haven't been found in significant numbbers on any public benefit roll. That doesn't make sense. When a person signs up for public benefits, the State can start tracking everything - Illegals are kind of 'allergic' to that kind of scrutany.
I talked to several illegal bus boys and the SS numbers are protected. They pass the numbers on to family members or to friends.
They pay taxes. Many don't file for a return because that could lead to an audit. Funny thing about the I.R.S., if you pay but don't file for a return, no one questions it. From what I heard, it's possible the I.R.S. may still have 90 year old bus boys paying in on a SS number.
It seems to me, if they were serious a few paperwork checks on available information would produce more effective results.
But, that's IF they were serious.
6. Besides, Mexicans have universal healthcare already in Mexico. Why would they want to go here? I got that information from a study done in Texas wondering why so few eligible for Medicaid were interested in getting it.
It seems they prefer healthcare in Mexico (citizenship is NOT required. U.S. citizens can sign up for $400/year and according to ex-parte boards, at the specialist level the quality is the same or better than what we are used to).
In Arizona, someone only needs to cross the border to see everything from dentists to surgeries offered. They can't be that bad with charters crossing the border just for healthcare.
Maybe WHO is right and U.S. healthcare has fallen below a number of third world countries. It's certainly a myth we have #1 in the world.
Americans with means travel to Thailand for the latest. Mexico City will offer the latest state of the art global facility and it will be open to universal healthcare - that is if Bush doesn't figure out a way to get them to privitalize it first.
9. I watch network news for the first time in quite awhile and it must have degenerated further (because I used to believe it). I could only take a week. Even within the same broadcast, stories could contridict each other and no questions were asked. The only investigative leads supported the stories. 90% + of national news was directly what had been given out on a press release (I looked a few up) as written.
To be fair, the White House isn't the only one offerring pre-packaged news, but they are the one making various statements that oppose verified publically available information and do so unchallenged. Are people that gullible?
Based on the few comments by anchors, they certainly are. I used to think news persons had to have some level of intelligence or questioning ability and that seems to not be part of the job anymore. Then I realized, the last time I'd seen them in the field reporting was usually the weather report.
With a better sense of humor, I could have equated them with the Onion and John Stewert, combined. This would have been much more interesting to read too probably.
10. We need to start understanding much more about foriegn economies and how we fit into the picture - largely because the U.S. is a debtor nation too.
Under current agreements, the Mexican economy CAN'T grow. Illegal Immigration is a by-product of OUR policies. No nation has improved their economy since Reagan first developed them.
The way we treat them, will have a lot to do with the way we can expect to be treated.
Maybe we should try and listen, first?
11. The IMF issued a warning to NOT offer anymore tax cuts, our defect threatens global stability and within 48 hours, Bush announded another tax cut. That's a good clue where this administration is heading.
Everywhere I look for documented information does not produce what most American's would call a 'rosy economic future'. Remember, NO nation has improved their economy under current debtor nation regulations - that includes us now.
There is a CIA processed used to 'de-stabilize' a country and step by step, Bush has initiated the same process here. This is history folks and it's happening again.
This isn't just about Mexico, this is also about us.
Illegal immigration won't be solved
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Posted By: aikanae Posted on: Jun. 27, 2006 at 11:20 PM |
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Based on 11 ratings.
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Jun. 28, 2006 at 11:01:24 AM
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| Lots of good points aikanae. Seems by the rating that somebody didn't agree but lacked the courage to tell you why. Let me help correct the indignity with a 10.
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Jun. 29, 2006 at 10:54:47 AM
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| "Twice as many illegals cross the Canadian border (per U.S. border patrol figures). They just can't be seen as easily. That does make this a race issue." But you can't find the figures to back that statement up because "I'd have to hunt it down again - I'm not a proffessional. Should be easy to google". What a total CROCK! Your whole burdensome tirade could have been summed up with the two quotes above. What a waste of time. I'm sorry I read this stupid race baiting article. |
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Jun. 29, 2006 at 01:31:34 PM
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| However, the Border Patrol has released such figures to Rep.Tom Tancredo, a Republican from Colorado and a crusader for increased efforts to stop illegal immigration. Tancredo has released the figures publicly, and the Border Patrol doesn't dispute their authenticity. In summary, the best evidence available, as well as the evidence cited by the sponsors of the ad, makes a better case for building a fence at the Canadian border than it does at the Mexican border – that is, if Let Freedom Ring's object is truly to stop illegal immigration from Muslim countries rather than from Mexico and Central America.> Note: I STRONGLY think people should learn to LOOK UP their own data and documentation v. depend on other people's information. Yes, it is important to ask what they base their opinion on - but that's not good enough anymore. I have found more holes in most information that at first 'read' sounds accurate - and just by following THEIR references, seems entirely true...except that it's not. This came from factcheck.org |
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Jun. 29, 2006 at 01:58:10 PM
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| forgot - to find out more about CIA / de-stabilization and the process is a pretty fragmented subject. i first read it on a website www.thirdworldtraveler.com and one of the articles deals with reagan and the iran/contra affair. there is also a nobel laurate with an essay on line detailing his experiences (and i don't recall the website off the top of my head) but that is an EXCELLENT HIGHLY RECCOMENDED READ - not for just information, but for good writing. then there is documentation supporting at national security archives (lots of info there) the rest i pieced together from reading about venezuela's experiences with the 2002 coup, nicuragua's CURRENT experiences and the Geo Bush style campaign happening in Mexico right now. Information from Cuba is very revealing as well - follow the name Posoda and that will eventually lead you to 'School of Americas' (terrorist training) - Congress actively funds NED and USAID. I think it's only a secret to U.S. that those are both fronts to the CIA. - Their is also information detailing the actual PROCESS of 'de-stabilization' of a nation through a site chronically Yugoslavia's demise (uh, Clinton that time). That's a very lengthy read. It's a whooper though. - In it (above) it also chronicles 'Bush family' attempts to stop the exportation of Nazi's. Now, I've heard the inundo's - can't find anything linking them beyond 1950's (after WWII though). But this is a court case where the defense says "10,000 are still alive and living in the U.S." that was in 1990. - Several current administration member survived the holocaust. Now, I find that strange that many things parellel Hitler. This isn't 1984 novel stuff - it's re-reading actual historical fact. Under the program for 'refugees' it was impossible (through a loophole) for anyone to immigrate WITHOUT being a nazi.. That's why the office of O.S.I started in 1973. o.k. I haven't gotten much further than that. just a hunch something isn't adding up right. i wasn't expecting a link in that direction. - another good read. Amnesty Int'l's report (summary) on Cuba. The U.S. has never aspired to have such a CLEAN report. Not a single abuse. i think if AI could be bought off, the U.S. would have done it long ago - and we haven't based on our summary. Venezuela's doing good too, based on their summary's. i think we already have a ONE political party country. |
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Jul. 3, 2006 at 11:51:23 AM
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| ChrisAndy, I don't know aboot the Canadian border number, but it is a fact that half of the illegal immigrant problem comes from people not coming in from Mexico, or elsewhere illegally, BUT as people who come legally, and over stay their visas, or tourists who just stay. We don't see that so much here in AZ, but take a trip to South Florida, or New York City and you can easily beileve it. |
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Jul. 3, 2006 at 07:43:44 PM
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| "Under current agreements, the Mexican economy CAN'T grow. Illegal Immigration is a by-product of OUR policies. No nation has improved their economy since Reagan first developed them." Kitty Pilgrim sat in for Lou Dobbs today, and she reported that the Mexican economy would be approximately equal to Spain's today had it kept growing at the same rate after 1980 as before 1980. Bad government decimated the economy. I assumed she meant the Mexican government, but maybe not. Perhaps you could expand on that topic, aikanae. |
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Jul. 4, 2006 at 02:11:39 AM
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| AZ Moderate: read up on our trade agreements. NAFTA, CAFTA, FATA. They are "free trade" in that they allow corporations to do whatever they want "unobstructed" by legislation, which means no labor laws, no pollution laws, no notta. In Mexico's case the profits from cheap labor did not stay inside the country - the goods were sold elsewhere and companies headquarters were elsewhere. These companies did not help support the country with taxes, schools, roads or infrastructure. The trade agreements have been in use long enough for clear reports to emerge and with Mexico so close to us, we can see the results. I am not saying there hasn't been some mismanagement in the past, but under Fox that cleared up quite a bit. Universal healthcare did make a significant improvement - one of the few measures that have. I can imagine that's being spun around too. (i haven't looked up the outcome of the election yet. The U.S. sunk millions into it). Our agreements were never aimed at helping countries through support anyway, since the core theory is against public investments (now called "socialism") which allow corporations to take over public systems as well. Some would also call this thinly veiled corporate 'protectionism' and not a 'free market' (beyond corporations) like it's been as advertised. Other factors come into play since Mexico is a debtor nation. The U.S. is one now too - and probably poorer than Mexico. I haven't seen anyone crunch numbers as far as the ratio - and that is what counts - not foriegn debt. Corporations buy and sell that debt and, afterall - it was Enron who held California hostage (after being on the Republican platform) and not intervened from Bush. Fortunatley no state has continued with privitization plans since. But, understanding world finance and debts i think is critical. i've looked for over 2 years for a hole in the picture i see and it's still not there. Very simplified, credit is bought and sold on the world market like our loans such as mortgage, school loans, etc. The amount of interest is based on creditworthiness (debt:GNP) and as a country pays off the loan, the market places a higher value on that loan - and it's sold to maximize the higher value. The new owner, who paid more, now needs to reflect that with higher interest rates and this can happen frequently. The end result is that a country can pay off a loan many times over and not see the principle reduced. This practice is a little stacked too, since creditors also have access to financial records (to reccomend 'helpful' economic reforms) and conviently interest is raised such that the country can't spend anything on education, roads, schools and such. There are catch 22's all over our trade agreements, IMF and World Bank. Both IMF and World Bank are considered extensions of the U.S. and a reason it should have been so alarming that Bush almost dared the IMF to pull the plug on our credit. This is no joke. Creditors can and do tell debtor nations what they can and can not do. The U.S. has the highest debt to GNP ratio ever existed and it looks like Bush isn't going to stop. I think it should be fairly obvious that Bush intended to bankrupt the U.S. beyond the point of no return before he even became president. I think there was someone from the Heritige Foundation that said "shrink the government small enough to wash down the drain ... " Bush is doing that by exploding the government and mismanaging (giving away funds) until there is no choice and corporations (creditors) take over. There may even be an arguement it's started already. Shortley after Bill Moyers retired, he gave several addresses and wrote about this - calling it a 'class war'. Everything I've read supports this, but I'm not so sure it's a class war - but it's an economic war. These are the politics that keep Mexico down and will destroy the U.S. I'm not a pro at this. I don't know how to keep track of all the little referances that pull this stuff together for me. I'll come back with more solid references. A lot of this came from reading about the economic situation in central and south america - and NOT using U.S. mainstream as the source, but trying to get even more direct content. |
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Jul. 4, 2006 at 10:14:33 AM
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| Execellent. To think that the problem is illegal immigration is ludicrous. And excellent point number 10. Not only are the economies not improving, the only thing improving is the profits, power and protection of corporations and corporatist individuals. "Someone once likened their approach to throwing garbage at the wall and seeing what sticks with the public. I assume immigration didn't capture enough, so they came up with gays, now flag burning." I would argue differently. It used to stick with "gays". It isn't sticking with flagburning. Illegal immigration still has sticking power. People are still latched onto that one as if it will be the cure-all. And the corporatists love us for that because it keeps us in ever-lasting ignorance and servitude. Whenever they want something to "stick", they just show footage of 9/11. And your point about the bus boys... I have known many illegals over the years and the story is always the same. NONE have used "sevices", all pay taxes, and none file returns. One used to go back to mexico for regular medical sevice and perscriptions. My dentist for the last five years is in Mexico. Best dentist ever in my 45 years. Please continue with the excellent arguemnts. |
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