Action Point 6-29-2008

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Posted on: Jun. 28, 2008 at 7:34 PM

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AN HOUR WITH ENERGY ACTIVIST HARVEY WASSERMAN, author of Solartopia: Our Green-Powered Earth, A.D. 2030.

This week's Republican echo-chamber has shrilled DRILL HERE, DRILL, NOW, PAY LESS and gone unchallenged by most Democrats WHY?!!

Forget just the reframe opportunity lost, like INVEST HERE, INVEST NOW, PAY AMERICANS-- the high price of oil is forcing a natural reversal of NAFTA-- and more!!

FRAMESHOP editor and author of OUTRIGHT BARBAROUS Jeffrey Feldman takes on James Dobson!

BBC journalist and New York Times bestselling author of Armed Madhouse, Greg Palast comments on SCOTUS recent backstabbing of Americans on behalf of oil monster EXXON.

Action Point Countdown and more!

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Phaedrus

Jun. 30, 2008 at 09:00:48 AM

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Hey-o,

CLB, do you have any good, non-ExxonMobil financed studies on ethanol, and whether or not it is energy efficient? I've heard both ways, that corn is a net loser, and that it is a big winner. But every one I've heard from, was either funded or talked up by ExxonMobil, or ADM/Monsanto, etc. I also saw a deal on corn being genetically modified to make the entire plant containing sugars, and vastly increasing the ethanol output from each plant.

I saw a Toyota Prius article this week, on a plug in version getting over 100mph. It had some solar cells on the roof, was plug in and had the gas motor. If we could couple that with ethanol most of our energy problems are solved with some effort in 5 years.

Can you also scrounge up some good links on how much oil we can get out of ANWAR, and offshore, how many tankers can be built to service those oil rigs, and how fast we can get them?
Compare that to what we can get by raising the CAFE standards to 38mpg, and making hybrids be 40% of the new car and truck market by 2013?

Sorry for the homework assignment, I'll search too, find some links and we'll see what the numbers look like. I saw a report from Merrill Lynch projecting gas to top $5.75 by Labor Day! So, that should make the whole conversion thing much more economically feasible.

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Phaedrus

Jun. 30, 2008 at 05:51:39 PM

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Energy balance ^[31]

Country Type Energy balance

United States Corn ethanol 1.3

Brazil Sugarcane ethanol 8

Germany Biodiesel 2.5

United States †Cellulosic ethanol ††2–36

† experimental, not in commercial production

†† depending on production method

To start with, here is a table from WIKI. Note that corn ethanol gets 1.3 BTUs for every 1 input, which is a net gain. There is one Doctor Pimentel with a study showing otherwise, but every study from the DOE, Dept. of AG and others shows this 1.3 number. BioDiesel, gets you 2.5, and sugarcane nets 8 to 1!

The cellulosic ethanol is still developing, and this is Dubya's Switchgrass energy, from his 2005? or 2006 SOTU Address.

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Next, a naysayer, http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/cooke/2007/0202.html

He has a neat table showing his "true costs"

Cost For A Gallon Of Corn Ethanol

Corn Ethanol Futures Market quote for January 2007 Delivery $2.49

Total Direct Costs per Gallon $3.37

Total Indirect Costs per Gallon $0.46

Total Social Costs $3.06

Total Cost of Corn Ethanol @ 85% Blend $6.89

The nice Right winger used these scary numbers back in Jan of 2007. Imagine the horror of the true cost of corn ethanol at $6.89/gal! Of course, now the pump price for gas is $4.10/gal, add in the true cost numbers of multiple wars in the Middle East, the VA Medical costs of 30,000 brain injuries from blasts, and the cost of replacing most of our Army's trucks and tanks, and what is the true cost of gas?

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http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_rooster.html

This link does a good job of refuting Pimentel. In essence, Pimentel uses every worst case assumption, about energy inputs, and takes from apples and oranges to build his case against corn, while ignoring his the gains that each brings about - ie, he assumes all US corn is grown w/ irrigation, and calculates the energy that requires, but then ignores that only 15% of US corn is grown w/ irrigation. Also, irrigation yields are 75% higher. So he punishes the total us crop for the negative, but doesn't add it back in for the gains.

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this one is a info clearinghouse on ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

Here from WIKI, again

Reduced petroleum imports and costs

One rationale given for extensive ethanol production in the U.S. is its benefit to energy security, by shifting the need for some foreign-produced oil to domestically-produced energy sources.^[105] Production of ethanol requires significant energy, but current U.S. production derives most of that energy from coal, natural gas and other sources, rather than oil.^[106] Because 66% of oil consumed in the U.S. is imported, compared to a net surplus of coal and just 16% of natural gas (2006 figures),^[107] the displacement of oil-based fuels to ethanol produces a net shift from foreign to domestic U.S. energy sources.

According to a 2008 analysis by Iowa State University, the growth in US ethanol production has caused retail gasoline prices to be US $0.29 to US $0.40 per gallon lower than would otherwise have been the case.^[108]

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Finally, corn looks like a conversion crop, a temporary fix, while they develop cellulosic ethanol, either switch grass or poplars. This newer technology is obviously going to yeild higher energy gains, and result in big carbon savings. But, corn moves the US off petro, and onto solar and coal, today.

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Phaedrus

Jul. 2, 2008 at 10:48:22 AM

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Hey-CLB, here is one more link

[link:seekingalpha.com]It compares oil and gas prices, in relation to the US dollar AND the Euro - these are pretax so pump prices are higher. The basic finding is that adjusted for dollar exchange rates, oil and gas prices haven't gone up much in the EU zone since 2005. The EU price went from 1.5 to 2 in the early 2001 -04 time frame, with the USA. Then they went up much more slowly 2005-08, from the $2 to 2.50 -2.75 range, and are holding there. While at the same time, the USA went from $2 to 4.10 and we're still climbing.

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adam

Jul. 2, 2008 at 04:51:29 PM

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[This is a reply to comment by Phaedrus on Jul. 2, 2008 at 10:48:22 AM]

Phaedrus
Jul. 2, 2008 at 10:48:22 AM

Hey-CLB, here is one more link
compares oil and gas prices, in relation to the US dollar AND the Euro - these are pretax so pump prices are higher. The basic finding is that adjusted for dollar exchange rates, oil and gas prices haven't gone...

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So the REAL problem goes back to the strength of the dollar.....

From Nixon borrowing money for JFKs foray into Vietnam to Carter TRYING to pay off that debt then Reagun borrowing more money to dress up DC like some whorish Hollywood Party to make the country FEEL good, to Bu$h the First's continuation of the whoring of DC to Bill Clintons massive STOCK bubble and his deregulation of the banking industry which turned into Son of a Bu$h's Housing and Banking Bubble which turned into the current OIL Bubble and his massive borrow and spending spree that has finally led to massive inflation (hidden now because we dont count food and energy costs in inflation numbers).

All of this is basically the wealthy pilfering the middle class, with their consent, as AZ Mod has so eloquently covered SO many time befores...

The greatest amount of wealth and investment NOT in the pockets of the uberwealthy are those retirement and savings of our aging population, you know that money that they are investing for us....much like they were in the '20s of the last century.....

What can you buy for a penny and why is that?

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adam

Jul. 3, 2008 at 07:46:12 AM

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And why is the strength of our dollar so weak?

Welfare for Corportists who care less about VALUE, but what they can skim....

War is Welfare for the Uberrich...JFKs Vietnam War Machine supplied both sides just like Dubbya's War Machine supplies both sides.

Special favors for the Stock Market, House, Banking and Oil are all based in special favors, priviledge and governmental WELFARE...supplied by BOTH sides of the Party - Democrats and Republicans....

Against the fundamentals of the Constitution and the Spirit of America...

Why should OIL companies change their wanton, wasteful, corrupt practices?
Just like members of Bu$h's Oilraq Team, they get rewarded for their favors.....

And what is the answer?

Take away the welfare, the priviledge and the special favors from the Oil Tycoons?

NO! Say members of the Party.

Give Solar and Alternatives the same kind of welfare, priviledge and special favors that the oil company has enjoyed for almost a hundred years, that will fix things.....

Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........
Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........
Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........
Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........
Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........
Doing the same thing, expecting different results.........

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Phaedrus

Jul. 3, 2008 at 01:04:17 PM

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Adam, the government doing nothing, and allowing the magical free market unicorn to itself will not fix the energy crisis. Right now, July 4rd, gas is at 4.13/gal. It isn't going down, anytime soon. The forecast is for gas to be $5.25-5.50 by Labor Day.

This is a big problem, and the govt needs to create a solution, provide leadership, and take the decision away from the Free Market, ExxonMobil and Halliburton.

We need a Energy Manhatton Project, we need more mass transit, nationwide high speed trains, and higher CAFE standards.

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CLB

Jul. 3, 2008 at 11:17:39 PM

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Sorry to be lax in replying. Spent the first part of the week entirely prerecording this upcoming week-end show (what a PAIN), but again, it's on energy.

As you'll see when I post the upcoming show info, Arjun Makhijani is my main interviewee on the topic. I like him because he at one time worked for an energy company and was convinced there was no viable alternative solution workable NOW. His company asked him to prove it. Then he found out he was wrong. There are alternatives available now and he's founded an organization to further that research and move alternatives forward.

He's a great resource but hard to get much time with...soon though I expect to be discussing the topic with him monthly.

He states that putting US resources into seriously bringing to market a hybrid car would do as much for gas prices in 5 years as drilling in ANWR would achieve by 2020.

He says NOTHING done with drilling or supply will ease gas prices. The problem is the weak dollar and international oil region instability. Period.

And he agree with me that if we elect McCain (i.e. blockade Iran, the fourth largest world oil producer) it will double or triple oil and gas will double.

In short, a vote for McCain is a vote for MUCH more of the same!

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CLB

Jul. 4, 2008 at 12:01:44 AM

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[This is a reply to comment by CLB on Jul. 3, 2008 at 11:17:39 PM]

CLB
Jul. 3, 2008 at 11:17:39 PM

Sorry to be lax in replying. Spent the first part of the week entirely prerecording this upcoming week-end show (what a PAIN), but again, it's on energy.
As you'll see when I post the upcoming show info, Arjun Makhijani is my main...

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By hybrid Arjun means one running on battery or plug-in electric (using solar).

Here is a good article describing how oil markets work.

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adam

Jul. 4, 2008 at 12:00:38 PM

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[This is a reply to comment by Phaedrus on Jul. 3, 2008 at 01:04:17 PM]

Phaedrus
Jul. 3, 2008 at 01:04:17 PM

Adam, the government doing nothing, and allowing the magical free market unicorn to itself will not fix the energy crisis. Right now, July 4rd, gas is at 4.13/gal. It isn't going down, anytime soon. The forecast is for gas to be $5.25-5.50 by...

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Sorry Phaedrus,

But the problem IS that the government HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING...

It has continually artificially interferred with the market by GIVING WELFARE to the OIL Corportists.....

We would not need a "Manhattan Project" for energy IF THE GOVERNMENT had not already corrupted the free market and made subsidized OIL the energy of choice....

Government in this case IS THE PROBLEM, and you just want more......

The market is brilliantly flexible, when competition is free and consumers pay the true price and not a subsidized one.....

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Phaedrus

Jul. 4, 2008 at 12:31:47 PM

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[This is a reply to comment by adam on Jul. 4, 2008 at 12:00:38 PM]

adam
Jul. 4, 2008 at 12:00:38 PM

Sorry Phaedrus,
But the problem IS that the government HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING...
It has continually artificially interferred with the market by GIVING WELFARE to the OIL Corportists.....
We would not need a "Manhattan Project" for energy IF...

View this Comment

No, Adam. The Free Market will not make things gooder, or more better on it's own.
Govt. has been interfering for oil for 90 years.
90 years ago, that made sense.
It no longer does - and hasn't for 35 years.
Then govt tried to lead us out of this mess.
But then Reagan undid the good leadership of Carter.
And we still are operating under the plan of the early 20th Century.

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